Curse

Teh Jace · Nov 28, 2008, 12:50 PM // 12:50

WoH can outheal pretty much anything in the 4man enviroment but hexways. WE was a powerful template for warr when ED rangers were still viable since monks usually don't even have guardian (shame on u all, WoH spammers!).

WE warr has a slightly worse shutdown options so u rly need to pair him with one more WE warr or a BA ranger (worse than ED) to compete with WoH. And 2 WE warrs are kinda meh (or maybe StS is just bad in TA but got no other better example atm).

steel singer · Nov 29, 2008, 12:00 PM // 12:00

Well, StS used 2 WE warrior and a BA ranger, so without the necro they can't survive..
Just poison them and they died pretty soon..

2 WE warrior with a smite monk, that's much more of a pain :/

Xi Kyx Xi · Dec 04, 2008, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Rawr brought a really cool hexway build to the table that personally I feel is better than the current hexway (Necro, Mesmer, and the zZzzZz R/P). Their build has a Me/N Fastcast curses (with Price of Failure AND Reckless Haste), with a Me/E to shutdown all casters and spot-help with Empathy on the bar. Surprisingly, the main way of damage features a Mind Blast ele with more capabilities of infinite energy even more so than the notorious FF-Spammer. This offers the team a virtual advantage of making a lot of skills useless such as Empathy, Faint (neglecting the degent), blind (which really isn't too prominent since the nerf of SoM), etc. The healer varies from a Rt/D with Pionus Concentration or just a standard monk bar. As well, the Ele has distortion in order to survive, along with the Mesmer equipped with Grasping Earth to say no to RaO's mischievous wolves.

So yeah, it's a very strong hexway that if it gained popularity, would force more players to bring additional hex removal perhaps, due to the threat of two unique hexways. Whether tightening the bars of a team allows new builds to arise is unknown to me. But at least it is an alternative build to beat most balanced teams with.

And sorry if I was suppose to keep this on the hush hush, I can delete post if needed O_o.

Seraphim of Chaos · Dec 04, 2008, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xi Kyx Xi

Rawr brought a really cool hexway build to the table that personally I feel is better than the current hexway (Necro, Mesmer, and the zZzzZz R/P). Their build has a Me/N Fastcast curses (with Price of Failure AND Reckless Haste), with a Me/E to shutdown all casters and spot-help with Empathy on the bar. Surprisingly, the main way of damage features a Mind Blast ele with more capabilities of infinite energy even more so than the notorious FF-Spammer. This offers the team a virtual advantage of making a lot of skills useless such as Empathy, Faint (neglecting the degent), blind (which really isn't too prominent since the nerf of SoM), etc. The healer varies from a Rt/D with Pionus Concentration or just a standard monk bar. As well, the Ele has distortion in order to survive, along with the Mesmer equipped with Grasping Earth to say no to RaO's mischievous wolves.

So yeah, it's a very strong hexway that if it gained popularity, would force more players to bring additional hex removal perhaps, due to the threat of two unique hexways. Whether tightening the bars of a team allows new builds to arise is unknown to me. But at least it is an alternative build to beat most balanced teams with.

And sorry if I was suppose to keep this on the hush hush, I can delete post if needed O_o.

The damage comes from Rodgort spam? Sounds like some very low pressure stuff.

Zena Starlight · Dec 04, 2008, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xi Kyx Xi

Rawr brought a really cool hexway build to the table that personally I feel is better than the current hexway (Necro, Mesmer, and the zZzzZz R/P). Their build has a Me/N Fastcast curses (with Price of Failure AND Reckless Haste), with a Me/E to shutdown all casters and spot-help with Empathy on the bar. Surprisingly, the main way of damage features a Mind Blast ele with more capabilities of infinite energy even more so than the notorious FF-Spammer. This offers the team a virtual advantage of making a lot of skills useless such as Empathy, Faint (neglecting the degent), blind (which really isn't too prominent since the nerf of SoM), etc. The healer varies from a Rt/D with Pionus Concentration or just a standard monk bar. As well, the Ele has distortion in order to survive, along with the Mesmer equipped with Grasping Earth to say no to RaO's mischievous wolves.

So yeah, it's a very strong hexway that if it gained popularity, would force more players to bring additional hex removal perhaps, due to the threat of two unique hexways. Whether tightening the bars of a team allows new builds to arise is unknown to me. But at least it is an alternative build to beat most balanced teams with.

And sorry if I was suppose to keep this on the hush hush, I can delete post if needed O_o.

Any chance you could elaborate more? This sounds quite interesting to play.

Cammy · Dec 04, 2008, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xi Kyx Xi

Rawr brought a really cool hexway build to the table that personally I feel is better than the current hexway (Necro, Mesmer, and the zZzzZz R/P). Their build has a Me/N Fastcast curses (with Price of Failure AND Reckless Haste), with a Me/E to shutdown all casters and spot-help with Empathy on the bar. Surprisingly, the main way of damage features a Mind Blast ele with more capabilities of infinite energy even more so than the notorious FF-Spammer. This offers the team a virtual advantage of making a lot of skills useless such as Empathy, Faint (neglecting the degent), blind (which really isn't too prominent since the nerf of SoM), etc. The healer varies from a Rt/D with Pionus Concentration or just a standard monk bar. As well, the Ele has distortion in order to survive, along with the Mesmer equipped with Grasping Earth to say no to RaO's mischievous wolves.

So yeah, it's a very strong hexway that if it gained popularity, would force more players to bring additional hex removal perhaps, due to the threat of two unique hexways. Whether tightening the bars of a team allows new builds to arise is unknown to me. But at least it is an alternative build to beat most balanced teams with.

And sorry if I was suppose to keep this on the hush hush, I can delete post if needed O_o.

Non-physical damage is incredibly strong right now due to the utter lack of prot on monk bars (namely no RoF, no Spirit Bond). So assuming your ele can get spells off without getting interrupted by a ranger (which the anti-melee mesmer should take care of), you can basically Mind Blast -> Immolate -> Rodgort's Invocation and there is nothing the monk can do except cast Patient Spirit and WoH over and over again until s/he is out of energy.

Teh Jace · Dec 04, 2008, 06:05 AM // 06:05

Hmm I thought it was a product of some RA coincidence. We ran into it (the priest map with bridge and spikes) and these tards were just camping behind the wallz while spamming their shit. Add 400ms ping to the us server (was 1AM) and the game is over. Dunno maybe it was from rawr. They can't exploit gvg anymore so TA might be moar attractive to them

It is a shame degen is stacked at -10 but there is no limit for hexes. Let's call it a bad game design.

Nemo the Capitalist · Dec 04, 2008, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cammy

Non-physical damage is incredibly strong right now due to the utter lack of prot on monk bars (namely no RoF, no Spirit Bond). So assuming your ele can get spells off without getting interrupted by a ranger (which the anti-melee mesmer should take care of), you can basically Mind Blast -> Immolate -> Rodgort's Invocation and there is nothing the monk can do except cast Patient Spirit and WoH over and over again until s/he is out of energy.

Thats taking into account the monk not ebing able to CHANNEL TANK.....

~Food for thought

Sun Fired Blank · Dec 04, 2008, 08:35 AM // 08:35

It's a product of RA coincidence, I think. Cirque, Jatt, Iso and I ran into it a couple of nights ago. Some of the high ranked RA gladiators were running those bars: Superman Returns was on the Me/N Lyssa's Aura Curses thing, they had some random ele on the E/Me Mind Blast, and Beren Camlostt was running his dual stance with Guardian and Spotless Soul. They said they went 28 out of RA. Ever since Cirque has always run like two copies of that E/Me template for his new guild, nH.

It's not really better then the packhunter/VoR/Soul Bind, it's just different, but it falls into the same category. The Me/N can potentially shit much harder over a frontline then the Soul Bind, but that's contingent on Lyssa's sticking, and you lose Foul Feast / Plague Sending and Soul Bind. The damage from the E/Me is actually pretty significant if you let him spam his skills, somewhere along the lines of letting an axe warrior frenzy indefinitely on a stationary target. It's really hard to put damage on it or use a ranger to stop it because it generates such a retarded amount of energy from Mind Blast on 40/40 and Distortion is basically always up. The Me/E is just standard VoR.

So you basically lose killing power of soul bind and ff / ps. You lose teamwide degen from packhunter. But you gain harder frontline / ranger shutdown, and you gain a source of damage that's really hard to permanently disable with the pew pew or empathic rangers, and pretty much entirely circumvents the anti-melee necro, so unless you're willing to throw backfire / vor on it, or you have diversion, you can't shut it down. Even magebaning immo or mind blast is less of a problem compared to magebaning apply poison or something, and sticking dshot on anything the ele has is nearly impossible.

Teh Jace · Dec 04, 2008, 02:17 PM // 14:17

Well this new hexway is definitely harder to beat compared to the old one. Here your ranger is completely f*cked up (hexes which cause miss and can't be interrupted thx to fast casting abuse? [email protected]..). Also in order to shut down R/P of the old hexway u need to simply rupt apply poison and 50% of their pressure is gone (magebane always hits since reckless&price are not used here).

It is basically unstoppable burst dmg (+ lots of burning degen) vs 2s easily ruptable apply poison.

All in all, this new shitway is far more dangerous than its older sister.

Some ppl laught at me and call me old-fashioned for bringing purge signet (on R or M, preferably doubled though) but it is the only skill that allows us to cope with them somewhat. Some hexway players are aware of it and have cry of frustration for that case though.

The sad reality for ppl who want to play balanced is they are not allowed to make a single mistake vs this garbage while their opponents just mash their keyboards and it's enough (yes, the situation in TA is much worse than in HA or gvg). Sometimes only luck decides.

Xi Kyx Xi · Dec 05, 2008, 03:15 AM // 03:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seraphim of Chaos

The damage comes from Rodgort spam? Sounds like some very low pressure stuff.

Where did I say Rodgort's is even on the bar? This isn't HA. The Ele has I-Bonds, Mind Blast, and Liquid Flame as huge pressure. Some people may bring Rodgort's but I think it is too energy-heavy and the AoE can be neglected since this is TA not HA.

Marxon Aurion · Dec 05, 2008, 09:25 AM // 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teh Jace

WoH can outheal pretty much anything in the 4man enviroment but hexways. WE was a powerful template for warr when ED rangers were still viable since monks usually don't even have guardian (shame on u all, WoH spammers!).

WE warr has a slightly worse shutdown options so u rly need to pair him with one more WE warr or a BA ranger (worse than ED) to compete with WoH. And 2 WE warrs are kinda meh (or maybe StS is just bad in TA but got no other better example atm).

So, since when is the BA ranger with RtW worse than ED?

Sun Fired Blank · Dec 05, 2008, 09:38 AM // 09:38

In my opinion it's less dangerous. The monk can easily tank the mind blast on a fire shield + disciple's + defense mod on martial weapon. The warrior is highly resistant to the damage. The ranger is highly resistant to the damage, A necro's kind of squishy but not so much that I'd say he's fragile if he's on a fire shield + defense mod. The overall damage is far less in my opinion. The R/P's degen, even with Apply magebaned and only Barbed Spear going, is more overall pressure then the Mind Blast, and if Soul Bind gets going, Foul Feast is reliably shut down and the monk is highly limited in terms of what it can do, especially once the VoR starts shitting on him.

If you really just want to play a hyperdefensive game versus the mind blast stuff you keep the ranger clean of hexes, you have him camp the domi mesmer, you strip Lyssa's, and you dshot / magebane crap on the ele every fourth or fifth second depending on the distortion spec (for reference, the skill icon lasts exactly five seconds). Usually a strong opening (multiple veils, maybe covers with vigs) is enough.

On another note, according to some random guy, Cirque is honorable, his guild nH is honorable, and he runs balanced. Not sure if I believe it but I'm sorely disappointed to hear it.

Seraphim of Chaos · Dec 05, 2008, 12:19 PM // 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xi Kyx Xi

Where did I say Rodgort's is even on the bar? This isn't HA. The Ele has I-Bonds, Mind Blast, and Liquid Flame as huge pressure. Some people may bring Rodgort's but I think it is too energy-heavy and the AoE can be neglected since this is TA not HA.

Where did you even say anything?

Your combination is pretty low pressure, anyways.

Teh Jace · Dec 05, 2008, 05:44 PM // 17:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marxon Aurion

So, since when is the BA ranger with RtW worse than ED?

U clearly don't play TA. The ED bar had -11 deb shot, better mobility, was always ready to interrupt + higher dmg output (BA is cool but burning WILL be sucked up by FF nec unless u spam it on him) + it was R/Mo so u could grab a purge signet and go own some hexways.

@Sun Fired Blank: hf tanking fire domage with ur monk being under hexshit spam. Vs R/P u could at least hide somewhere or evade him (not to mention blocking stances on ur ranger and nec at least).

The fact is hex stacks are rly a huge problem especially in TA. Taking fire ele over R/P doesn't rly change much.

Sun Fired Blank · Dec 05, 2008, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Tanking the damage from an ele is more ideal then your entire team under degen from the R/P and Soul Bind killing your monk and your necro. Sure you can Lightning Reflexes / Natural Stride / Disciplined Stance to prevent some of the R/Ps degen but I don't think any of those things are meaningful solutions. I think the E/Me is useful because it's a lot harder for basic honor to shut down, but I think a packhunter is more dangerous, and I think Soul Bind is more dangerous than the Me/N.

urania · Dec 06, 2008, 09:18 AM // 09:18

soul bind is only dangerous when it stacks with either vor,bf or empathy, and even then a diversion/shame need to get through in order for the pressure from the degen that is generated by the r/p to kick in.
so the only way i can see the ele version of the build to kill is that the dom mesmer manages to shutdown the monk properly by getting shame/div/through through and hope they do their job. Otherwise, the monk along with the ranger interrupts can keep the hex spam limited to a certain degree, usually enough for the team to kill.
i havent faced the ele version yet, but i can hardly imagine it being more dangerous than the r/p version.

Cammy · Dec 06, 2008, 09:44 AM // 09:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Fired Blank

On another note, according to some random guy, Cirque is honorable, his guild nH is honorable, and he runs balanced. Not sure if I believe it but I'm sorely disappointed to hear it.

If 2 Turret Rangers and a warrior that can clean spike opposing warriors is honorable and balanced, then yes, Cirque is quite honorable ^_^

Cirque · Dec 08, 2008, 01:44 AM // 01:44

We ran the build with Torsen Me Jatt and Ian after a similar team from RA completely owned us. We had these skills:

[build prof=E/Me ill=10 fir=12 ene=8][Mind Blast][Glowing Gaze][Immolate][Liquid][Incendiary Bonds][Distortion][Fire Attunement][Resurrection Signet][/build]

[build prof=Me/E fas=8 dom=12 ins=8 ear=7][Visions of Regret][Backfire][Empathy][Wastrel's Worry][Glyph of Lesser Energy][Grasping Earth][Drain Enchantment][Resurrection Signet][/build]

[build prof=Me/N fas=9 ins=9 cur=12][Faintheartedness][Price of Failure][Reckless Haste][Parasitic Bond][Suffering][Drain Enchantment][Resurrection Signet][Lyssa's Aura][/build]

[build prof=Rt/D res=12 spa=12 earthp=3][Spirit Light Weapon][Wielder's Boon][Soothing Memories][Energetic Was Lee Sa][Protective Was Kaolai][Pious Concentration][Life][Rejuvenation][/build]

Torsen was a rit because he doesnt play monk, before you ask.

Atrum Ex · Dec 08, 2008, 02:01 PM // 14:01

How do you defend against hexes? Just wondering, like if two of these teams faced off against each other. How would the healer handle all the VoRs and backfires, especially if they are rits?